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Post by infernofireblast on Nov 27, 2005 0:42:11 GMT -5
lol, no harm done, I'm sure Raven agrees as well. I'm actually glad I was able to influence yout train of thought Dakura, that's a first on my part to be sure, lol.. I'm sure beyond a shadow of a doubt your wisdom here on such subject lines(including your rather interesting Bakura Fanficttion) would be most valuable to our Forums, and thus, you should check out the Jobs Topic(it's on the Forum somewhere..), I'm sure you'll notice right away the Job I'm thinking of for you. Also, since it seems we all forgot, I owe you an apology, as well as our full welcome to Marik's Palace. And remember, if you need anything, we the Staff of MP are here to help, just PM us with any questions. Oh, and while we're on the Topic of Favorite Characters, I have one more reason to like Yami Bakura.. I just saw one of my Shonen Jump Magazines, and read the story of Bakura's first emergence(Monster World saga).. Pure genius.
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Post by Dakura Deoman on Nov 27, 2005 1:02:10 GMT -5
Wisdom? The flattery is almost making me blush...
Also there is nothing whatsoever to appologise to me for. I had my opinions, you had yours... nothing wrong with that. You didn't flame me, try to tear my ideas and theories to shreads... ect.
I'm curious though... have you seen series 0 by any chance? The last 3 episodes of the saga where Bakura makes an appearance... purely awsome. Lots of blood, psycological torture... and typical bakura awsome-ness. Purple hair looks wierd though.
It's kinda a pity they didn't continue that version of Yu-Gi-Oh actually... if Yami Marik made an appearance he'd probably be the more darker version that Raven seems to like.
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Post by Raven on Nov 28, 2005 3:27:46 GMT -5
Wow a lot of reading and I must say I rather enjoyed it. By the way for me the longer the better. After all it gives more material to help this site progress as you mention Dakura. Which for all of us here it is a pleasure. ((Maybe I could get you to blush maybe a little))
After reading all the posts in question I don’t have a lot to say as it seems pretty much what I all had in mind myself. However before we get into that. Just that my previous statement for clarification had no intension of contradicting the meaning of Fandom to a more pacific meaning. Instead I merely added my own relationship to Fandom in there as my own example for my personal case. Another words “to follow up your own statement before” I am a man that likes to become more my own person.
As for the real purpose of having the ideal of Fandom may vary between people. As you said it is rather difficult to explain for this reason. There is still one point to it that ties the boundaries together I believe. To have something that I can dwell in pleasure and own escape.
For one as pretrial in my example. It is like following deeply into a Movie or Book that has moved you some how. A small fantasy likes of which a world to define your imagination and creativity of ones mind.
Perhaps second is as perfectly explained by Dakura that a person follows the character out of Idolization. To follow and become more of what they admire. ((Modist of your talents of analysis that you are. Brooding is such a ugly term.))
Third could be a little of both.
Putting this together one can assume that all sides are the correct ones as we find the divider that connects them. Just different points of view to the same answer.
You see this is why my idea arguing over who’s is the best character would be pointless for a serious argument. It would seem almost childish. However I will admit the idea sounds amusing as there is always a little bit of a child with in me. *Laughs* ((I really feel like I am just quoting off of Dakura yet again.)) If one claims to be too grown up or better then to have such fun. Well I would just say to those people I would be careful if I was them. Ether your ego is showing or your weak self-esteem.
As far as debating goes regarding you Dakura. Given your skills for deep intensive thoughts regarding matters Also skills for how do I say....reversal rebuttal. ((Well that is the best I can describe other then cutting the legs of someone before they can so much as stand.)) I believe any contradiction towards you would be met with a intense challenge. Blushing just a little yet?
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Post by Dakura Deoman on Nov 28, 2005 10:18:11 GMT -5
*laughs rather aquidly at Raven's post* Dear raven... quite an interesting post you go there.
I must point out that just because a persons legs are cut off before they have a chance to stand doesn't mean they still can't fight back. They still have 10 fingers and a very nice set of teeth which they can use to punch and/or bite with. Of course it's always quite fun breaking their fingers and ripping out their teeth one at a time until they eventually give up or are just too crippled to fight on. However it makes things just that little bit more interesting when people fight back with everything they have... don't you agree?
But Raven... keep posting such sinister remarks about my debating skills and you'll start scaring people off. It's not like a pointless debate such as this is gonna actually harm anyone... so no reason to scare away such skilled people like infernofireblast. Besides... my debating skills still aren't anywhere near perfect and I don't happen to always be right about everything.
Lets get back on topic though now shall we?
Firstly Bakura has quite a lot more going for him in the looks department then Yami Marik has... and I'm sure most females who have seen a full-size version of my aviator would have to agree with me on this matter. Think of the various veins that stick out on Yami Marik's face... they aren't exactly all that appealing to the eye now are they?
Okays on second thoughts that point happens to sound rather lame, weak and petty comming from somebody such as myself... especially to those who know a tiny bit about my personality and the various thoughts and opinions i have when it comes to guys in general. Therefore i may as well just move onto a different point.
Bakura happens to be far smarter then Yami Marik. You see dear Raven, unlike the much-loved Yami Marik... Bakura actually analizes the situation instead of foolishly rushing into things. Bakura actually thinks about various problems he may encounter and then tries to find a way to prevent it before deciding to put his plan in action.
The Pharoah's Memories saga happens to be quite a good example of this. Bakura realized that the Egyptian Gods could only be summoned by Yami and so therefore may just be a problem for his diabound... so therefore before entering the memory world he made sure to absorb the power of Kaiba's BEWD. Which of course doing so proved to be quite a wise move on Bakura's part... it prevented him from being defeated too early on in the game.
You see on the other hand Yami Marik tends to lack forsight. He tends to foolishly rush into a situation confident that nothing will go wrong... which in the end was part of his downfall.
I'm pretty sure that if Yami Marik and Bakura were ever to have a game of chess... Bakura would most likely win. Although Yami Marik would most likely have quite a strong offence at first... he lacks the ability to see potential threats long before they actually become a problem.
So there you have it. Yet another reason on why in my opinion Yami Bakura happens to be more superior then Yami Marik. *is now looking foward to seeing what arguments people have to support Yami Marik*
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Post by Raven on Dec 1, 2005 6:59:00 GMT -5
*laughs rather aquidly at Raven's post* Dear raven... quite an interesting post you go there. I must point out that just because a persons legs are cut off before they have a chance to stand doesn't mean they still can't fight back. They still have 10 fingers and a very nice set of teeth which they can use to punch and/or bite with. Of course it's always quite fun breaking their fingers and ripping out their teeth one at a time until they eventually give up or are just too crippled to fight on. However it makes things just that little bit more interesting when people fight back with everything they have... don't you agree? But Raven... keep posting such sinister remarks about my debating skills and you'll start scaring people off. It's not like a pointless debate such as this is gonna actually harm anyone... so no reason to scare away such skilled people like infernofireblast. Besides... my debating skills still aren't anywhere near perfect and I don't happen to always be right about everything. Lets get back on topic though now shall we? Firstly Bakura has quite a lot more going for him in the looks department then Yami Marik has... and I'm sure most females who have seen a full-size version of my aviator would have to agree with me on this matter. Think of the various veins that stick out on Yami Marik's face... they aren't exactly all that appealing to the eye now are they? Okays on second thoughts that point happens to sound rather lame, weak and petty comming from somebody such as myself... especially to those who know a tiny bit about my personality and the various thoughts and opinions i have when it comes to guys in general. Therefore i may as well just move onto a different point. Bakura happens to be far smarter then Yami Marik. You see dear Raven, unlike the much-loved Yami Marik... Bakura actually analizes the situation instead of foolishly rushing into things. Bakura actually thinks about various problems he may encounter and then tries to find a way to prevent it before deciding to put his plan in action. The Pharoah's Memories saga happens to be quite a good example of this. Bakura realized that the Egyptian Gods could only be summoned by Yami and so therefore may just be a problem for his diabound... so therefore before entering the memory world he made sure to absorb the power of Kaiba's BEWD. Which of course doing so proved to be quite a wise move on Bakura's part... it prevented him from being defeated too early on in the game. You see on the other hand Yami Marik tends to lack forsight. He tends to foolishly rush into a situation confident that nothing will go wrong... which in the end was part of his downfall. I'm pretty sure that if Yami Marik and Bakura were ever to have a game of chess... Bakura would most likely win. Although Yami Marik would most likely have quite a strong offence at first... he lacks the ability to see potential threats long before they actually become a problem. So there you have it. Yet another reason on why in my opinion Yami Bakura happens to be more superior then Yami Marik. *is now looking foward to seeing what arguments people have to support Yami Marik* Its good to see I finally drove you out of your modist disguise. I just could not help but to be amused of the good guy routine you can cleverly portray. Bravo.... A asset indeed when luring unsuspecting smart *Censored* into the conversation for mental disembowelment. Looks....yes I agree that you should move on in the subject regarding the looks. It would seem to be a rather shallow remark at best. To have good looks if your guy would really only befall the purpose of attracting the admiration of men and the hearts of women in the bluntest context. Besides there is no point in looking good when it comes to a case where embodying fear and despair where ever you go is a common goal. It would defeat the purpose. Additionally who needs to look pretty when you have the all controlling fear of the people that carry the miss fortune of running across your path. As for the cunning argument between both....Your kidding right...... All this talk about having the ability farseeing future threats and you already befalling yourself wide open to a hard hitting rebuttal. I think it is wise to assess your own characters faults a little more closely. Of course I want deny Yami Mariks mistakes that led to his downfall. However to ever claim that Bakura is far superior to Yami Marik in terms of cunning and wit is a sad joke to me. Really now one can easily say that a major contributing factor Bakura manage to last this long to make it to the Memory World is by fortune. I am sure your wondering at this point why would I be so blunt to you on this. I mean this would only incite a counter assault on your part I am sure putting my reputation on the line, but you know I have a reason. Well I shall start from Duelist Kingdom and then finish off with his final demise in the Pharaoh Memories Saga. (1.) In Duelist Kingdom Bakura challenged Yugi in a Duel in the Shadow Realm. A rather unique Duel where the souls of Yugi’s friends and himself are trapped in there favorite chosen cards. Bakura seems to be confidant he just won himself a Puzzle only to his surprise the Pharaoh appears to great him with a Duel. I will spare the details of which Bakura seems to be winning. However Bakura made a rather stupid and foolish mistake that he flat forgot about. Some forsite he has...... He had to play Change Heart. ((For those that are lost Ryu soul is contained in this card, and of course each card that carries one of the character souls in it. The Character ultimately has control over the card.)) Of course Ryu is a beloved friend to Yugi and would never hurt him intentionally. Putting 2 and 2 together any 4 Brained Celled moron might just figure that may just backfire. Of course he lost because of it. Which case playing in the confines of the Shadow Realm put Bakura at the Pharaoh’s mercy where as he could have easily banished him there. However the Pharaoh was still a clueless twit at the time. (2.) Another time in Duelist Kingdom is where Bakura was pitting his beloved Monster against the petty guards trying to recapture Makoba, with Tristan, and Bakura. Bakura seem to be so caught up in letting his monster devour the men that he put down his guard for a Teen Age Boy to nock him unconscious. Tristan of all people.... That is embarrassing...... (3.) At Battle City where Bakura dueled the Pharaoh he made a huge and risky mistake at the very start of the Duel that could have cost him right there. All because his ego was on the rise again. ((Here your where just talking about how Yami Marik just rushes into things without analyzing the situation like your ever so beloved Bakura.....Common! He is not better when it comes down to it.)) Bakura kept summoning his weak Fiend Type monsters to the field in attack position exposing his life points for a duration of 3 turns because he was in a rush to summon the Dark Necrofear. After it was all said and done he life points where almost history. Which is fine and all since he got back control right afterwards. However if the Pharaoh was not such a ignorant fool he could have summon another low level monsters at one point to finish everything in a swift strike. Additionally any use of a Equip Card to increase attack points would have easily decided it all. (4.) Ok this is one I like to point out. This involves the Duel in between Yami Marik and Bakura. I will spare the details most of all however I will mention how Bakura failed miserably to foresee obvious threats. ((Yet again I will point out you explained in vivid detail how Bakura is more clever then Yami Marik. Especially in seeing threats ahead of time. ...........ok)) The biggest mistake that was made is that he trusted Mariks input on the Duel to dearly. He did not consider the possibility that Yami Marik may have altered his Deck after its original design with Mia. A clever thing to do on be halve of Yami Marik to keep his opponents off balance from his strategies and to off set the threat of chances that his Decks secrets would be leaked out as it would have been. Of course any half wit would consider the chance that he may have altered his Deck. Moving on was that Bakura did manage to steal away the Egyptian God of Ra from Yami Marik in the attempt to use it against him. Now there was another mistake made right there. Using Exchange Bakura failed to even notice the potential danger of given Yami Marik a good selection from Bakura’s hand in this case Monster Reborn was one of the cards in his hand that Yami Marik took in delight. ((This is what assisted in defeating Bakura.... Ironic)) This danger could have been avoided if he set whatever cards like Monster Reborn to the field rather then keeping them in the hand so carelessly. The only logical explanation is that Bakura has is ego on the loose again blinded by over confidence. Any 1 Brain Celled moron could have avoided that. Now after that Bakura summoned Ra. Well ok but again he was to confidant and did not realize even the risk that perhaps just maybe Yami Marik would have designed his Deck to help counter act any player stealing his God Card and using it against him. I would for one. Especially seeing the warning sings such as Yami Mariks unwavering confidence. Well with Ra’s summoning that increased Yami Mariks LP by Double and made Ra almost useless to Bakura. In the end Bakura was defeated because of it with the Irony that he himself literally threw victory in Yami Mariks lap with Monster Reborn. I will also mention that not once was Bakura even in control of the Duel. Yami Mariks dominated him and obliterated him despite Bakura’s best efforts. Even summoning Ra himself he could not even scratch Yami Marik. From this mishap Yami Marik banished Bakura to the Shadow Realm. However thanks to his lucky stars Bakura long before placed part of his spirit into the Millennium Puzzle to help bring his spirit back from the Shadow Realm. Otherwise it would be been over with. (5.) Moving onto the Pharaoh’s memories saga we go into the first confrontation with Bakura vs. the Pharaoh. Bakura dominated the Priests from which again the ego thing just comes out of proportion as it seems he has everything under control. However I will point out that once the Pharaoh summoned Obelisk the Tormentor from which Daibound and the God clashed. It almost led to Bakura’s defeat and the end of the game. Bakura underestimated the Pharaoh and his Obelisk where as if Daibound where to be even slightly weaker then he was. Bakura would have been destroyed. However thanks to his fail safe with absorbing the Blue Eyes White Dragons power he manages to stall off Obelisk in the result of the stale mate. ((Nearly bit it there by almost miscalculating Daibounds strength compared with the power of the enemy.)) But it does not end there. Once the stale mate was made Bakura and Daibound where weakened to the point of retreat or risk defeat. After all that itself was a close call. If the priests where more capable instead of laying on there assess in *Gaps*. They could have taken the chance to cut down Bakura before he could make for his escape. That was almost a minutes worth to react matter of fact. Additionally I will just toss in the over kill aspect however unlikely that if the Pharaoh summoned more then one God Monster at the same time. Daibound would not be able to stand against 2 of them. (6.) Ok this is the part where I start to get pissed off at Bakura or I should say Zork. In the climax where Zork reeks havoc on the City with the Priests and the Pharaoh. Zork had countless chances to kill the Pharaoh or prevent the Pharaoh from getting the chance to even fight back. However no no Feaking NO!!!. He just had to keep talking and talking and talking without shutting up what so ever. Which gave the good guys the numerous chances threw bought time to resist Zork and fight back tell the point the Pharaoh learned his name. I never ever seen such reckless display of egotistical bervado in the series as a hole. Not even Yami Marik which I will admit has that fault his own. However that really took it to the next level. I mean all Zork had to do was shut up and throw a lighting bolt or a lot of them. ((To kill off any would be servants offering there bodies as shields to the Pharaoh.)) Also he could have just stepped on them at some point or another. I was rooting for Zork but I kept getting pissed off about what I was seeing. Eventually thanks to Bakura being a ego maniac he finally dies. Ok my rebuttal has gotten far enough as is. Anyways I cannot say Yami Marik is better then Bakura. However really in the end you cannot say that Bakura is better then Yami Marik. We can try to go back and forth on this however it will be just about endless. I choose my character for various reasons. You have got to know me well Dakura. You know I am not one to be so haste to fall behind something that in the end would prove to be anything lesser then competing characters. I take careful consideration to any anime character and stay behind those that have earned my likeness. Yami Marik is one of only a very few that managed to receive my personal liking. However do not get me mistaken. I too have a great admiration to Bakura. Matter of fact if it was not for my more personal connection with Yami Marik. Then it could be possible that Bakura would be my Favorite in place. But the more personal level of which I speak is the dividing line between the two for me and makes all the difference. In a simplest explanation I can compare a great portion of my life with his own. Anyways that is enough out of me. |
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Post by Dakura Deoman on Dec 2, 2005 4:12:40 GMT -5
Still continuing with such sinister accusations about my personality and debating style? Surely i would have at least taught you by now that whatever side of my personality i choose to portray is still an honest part of who i am. I mean I really have been to several forums where i post my humble opinions and feelings just to be flammed back with no explimation whatsoever ((and didn't particually want to see a repeat here... hense my earlier comments on the last page)). I really am a 17 year old who tends to brood a lot more then i should... and i know full well that just because i think something is right doesn't particually mean that it is. For all i know i really could be rambling on about something i know nothing about ((for example infernofireblast here really could be just like Yami Bakura in more ways then i originally imagined he was)).
However yes it seems you have indeed revealed to people a much more interesting side of my personality... which is fine by me. They are both simply parts of who i am after all.
Enough about little old me though. This topic and debate is about our favourite YGO characters... not our various personality traits and faults.
Must say that your response is above and beyond what i was hoping and expecting from you. I didn't think you'd be able to take down my stronger argument with such ease and grace... instead I personally thought you'd seize onto the looks argument a bit more, or possibly the half-revealed point about who'd win a game of chess. Yes i knew there are flaws in my foresight argument... but just like in a skilled game of YGO people generally don't play their best cards right at the start unless they are aiming for a one-turn-kill ((which of course tends to take the fun out of things)).
Really... you don't have to worry about your rebuttal ruining your reputation or anything. This is a debate. In debates, people tend to argue with each other ((just like in a duel... people tend to fight against each other using their various cards)). In the end either somebody comes out as the clear victor or you have a tie... there aren't any hard feelings attatched. If people have a problem with understanding the basic concept of a friendly debate such as this, then they really do need help.
However it seems that you too have been somewhat modist about your skills dear Raven... for you're quite good at debating yourself. If you call your last post 'bad at debating with people you get along with'... then i pale to think at how skilled you'd be at arguing with people you don't get along with. Or maybe I'd end up sitting on the sidelines cheering as you skillfully tear the person to shreads... who knows.
Anyways I may as well clarify up the looks argument.
On a forum full of brainless bimbo fangirls... an argument about who looks best would actually hold a tiny bit of weight. However not only are there not many fan-GIRLS here at Marik's Palace... the majority of people here actually realize that looks don't always mean everything. After all cute, litte, fuzzy pink things can still be downright sinister and evil..
Basically i left the argument in my post ((as opposed to backspacing it)) because i was curious to see how people would take it. The argument could have lead to quite an interesting line of discussion after all...
Anyways due to a sweet little telemarketer lady who was o-so-kind enough to ring during the middle of my line of thought ((don't worry... i made sure she realized just how grateful i was for the distraction *smiles sweetly*)) I'm gonna wrap up my post without presenting another argument. After all when you think about it... I've presented quite a couple of my arguments supporting Bakura so that you can try to find fault with it and tear them down... but i have yet to hear a lot of your arguments. Infact i have yet to hear a lot of peoples opinions ((even infernofireblast has been rather quiet for the last few posts)).
So everybody, here's your chance to make an impact on the direction this debate is heading. In the words of eminem "seize the moment... try to freeze it and own it" ((which might i add that song is REALLY starting to grate on my nerves *glares hard at radio while picking up nearby shoe*)).
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Post by mrexplosive on Dec 4, 2005 23:30:38 GMT -5
:: cough ::
Please excuse me for slipping in, but I feel the need to make my comments.
1)This is by far, not a pointless arguement. Debates show our true selves, and bring to the table our intellect, despite it being a child's TV show. Debates also create simple pleasures of life. Imagine a world with no arguements, and everybody got along. Makes you shudder, does it not?
2)I do have to agree though, arguing on such topic seems so futile. An overall goal is needed for everything in life, and in such, I see none.
3)Fandom is a sick and cruel act of plagerism. There is no such thing as good influence. When one is infuenced by anything (Fictional Characters, TV Stars, whatever), part of their very soul is corrupted, and forms a sort of, shall I say, puzzle piece in one's being. One thinks not of thyself, but as that which they resemble, causing complete corruption in one's acts. I know this has already been established, but I feel very passionate about this subject, and I believe my two cents is very quite handy in certain situations. Thus, continuing, when one resembles another, the one being resembled also is affected, in many ways. They become prideful, and start to act foolish and reckless in many situations. The person who is acting on such persons' thoughts corrupt this world, because it creates a "carbon copy" of them. With so many people of the world, this cannot happen. Individuality is a complete and utter NECCESITY of life, it can't be without. Thus, showing such favouritism is corrupting upon thyself (biblical language is quite amusing, no?). Yet, such friendly debates are actually driving us to be individuals, at the same time. It is a positive, negative effect. All in all, just don't try to be someone else, or be influenced. It corrupts, terribly.
4)I respect all of you, quite greatly, in fact. Fictional character analysis is a superb way to develop one's own mind. Comparing two such characters creates such great habits, for one can only decide when one has full information. Yami Marik and Yami Bakura have similar traits (that, being evil, and wicked), which make them excellent candidates for discussion. I would hope this could continue elsewhere, for intellectual discussion develops the mind, quickly.
5)In my mind, Yami Marik and Yami Bakura are equally matched. One's strengths is the other's weakness. I believe the creator of the shows actually did this to create such "fans" as ourselves. Higher intellects who enjoy the show at a higher level than either fan-boys/girls.
I believe, such essays should be written, because with more intellects, the better the world is.
Thank you.
Note: For further information on my Bullet Number 3, I propose reading "The Picture of Dorian Gray". Fascinating read.
EDIT: To stick to the topic's proven point, my favourite character would most likely be Noah, for which I believe I don't have time to discuss.
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Post by Dakura Deoman on Dec 5, 2005 3:26:15 GMT -5
Wow mrexplosive... nice post. You've obviously put quite a lot of thought into things, which overall constributes to the topic and makes it more interesting and amusing for everyone involved.
I agree with most parts of your post... debates such as this do force a person to actually think about their answers. Their thoughts aren't limited to a simple "i like the pharoah"... instead they actually have to sit back for a moment and think about why they like or dislike a character.
Debating really is an art when done between 2 or more very skilled people. It requires a healthy combination of foresight, intelect, cunning and skill... as well as both the ability to think on your feet and the ability to turn a hopeless situation into your advantage. It's a mental game of sorts... one of which i personally rather enjoy.
As for your views on the negatives of fandom... I'm beginning to realize the full extent of your point. Most of the time it really does corrupt a person's thoughts and actions doesn't it?
However yet again i feel the need to defend the point of this debate being entirely futule. In every debate there is at least one basic goal - to convince the audience and the other person/people involved that your thoughts and opinions are correct and more logical... all while keeping an open mind to what the other person has to say ((a person generally will find the most amount of flaws in their thinking during a debate if they are open-minded)).
In this debate i am essentually trying to convince both Raven and the audience that Yami Bakura is a better fictional character then Yami Marik. Sure i may be aiming a little high here in hoping to sway Raven's mind even just that tiny little bit... but there still is an audience to convince and who i hope are enjoying this.
However maybe you still do have a point there mrexplosive. It takes two to tango... and if the other person hasn't got their heart in the game then it isn't all that fun. If the other people involved feel that arguing about such a matter as this is futile, pointless and a waste of their time... well then they won't be putting 100% effort into the debate. Kinda like trying to mentally dance with a person who doesn't want to... it just isn't very fun or rewarding.
If you ever do get the time though mrexplosive... I'm interested in hearing the reasons you happen to like Noa. After all I've never come across somebody who actually likes that character the most before... so it'll be interesting to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Ps. Biblical language can be quite amusing... or just plain confusing.
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Post by Raven on Dec 5, 2005 7:52:09 GMT -5
:: cough :: Please excuse me for slipping in, but I feel the need to make my comments. 1)This is by far, not a pointless arguement. Debates show our true selves, and bring to the table our intellect, despite it being a child's TV show. Debates also create simple pleasures of life. Imagine a world with no arguements, and everybody got along. Makes you shudder, does it not? 2)I do have to agree though, arguing on such topic seems so futile. An overall goal is needed for everything in life, and in such, I see none. 3)Fandom is a sick and cruel act of plagerism. There is no such thing as good influence. When one is infuenced by anything (Fictional Characters, TV Stars, whatever), part of their very soul is corrupted, and forms a sort of, shall I say, puzzle piece in one's being. One thinks not of thyself, but as that which they resemble, causing complete corruption in one's acts. I know this has already been established, but I feel very passionate about this subject, and I believe my two cents is very quite handy in certain situations. Thus, continuing, when one resembles another, the one being resembled also is affected, in many ways. They become prideful, and start to act foolish and reckless in many situations. The person who is acting on such persons' thoughts corrupt this world, because it creates a "carbon copy" of them. With so many people of the world, this cannot happen. Individuality is a complete and utter NECCESITY of life, it can't be without. Thus, showing such favouritism is corrupting upon thyself (biblical language is quite amusing, no?). Yet, such friendly debates are actually driving us to be individuals, at the same time. It is a positive, negative effect. All in all, just don't try to be someone else, or be influenced. It corrupts, terribly. 4)I respect all of you, quite greatly, in fact. Fictional character analysis is a superb way to develop one's own mind. Comparing two such characters creates such great habits, for one can only decide when one has full information. Yami Marik and Yami Bakura have similar traits (that, being evil, and wicked), which make them excellent candidates for discussion. I would hope this could continue elsewhere, for intellectual discussion develops the mind, quickly. 5)In my mind, Yami Marik and Yami Bakura are equally matched. One's strengths is the other's weakness. I believe the creator of the shows actually did this to create such "fans" as ourselves. Higher intellects who enjoy the show at a higher level than either fan-boys/girls. I believe, such essays should be written, because with more intellects, the better the world is. Thank you. Note: For further information on my Bullet Number 3, I propose reading "The Picture of Dorian Gray". Fascinating read. EDIT: To stick to the topic's proven point, my favourite character would most likely be Noah, for which I believe I don't have time to discuss. And yet it rhyme’s. Yes I have to agree with most of what you mentioned. Dakura made a excellent follow up as well. I myself am relatively new to the Debating thing outside just plan arguments. Dakura here is the one that has me started to rather enjoy it and let it become a more sort for hobby for me. In this debate you see before you. We both know its futile to sway us from are own favorite character. ((Where as I am just stating the obvious there for those that may not understand it and/or like to take it to a serious level. If people did actually take something like this to heart, then its safe to say they have no life.)) Just a for fun game for me, Dakura, and whom ever else likes to join in as we toss a bit of freindly bervado towards each other. As for bullet three in your post. First thing I like to mention is that it is hard for me to say that “there is no such thing as good influence”. There is a lot of negative things that can come from it that is for sure. However influence can also become a necessity for us as human beings to be able to grow into are individual selves. In this example is the influence such as growing up as a child. The influence given from parents or guardians to the “Basic” understanding of the world we all live in and the relationship we have with in ourselves. A foundation if you will that allows us to become are own person as we divine who we are with in the world we all live in. That would be one and very important factor to consider. I strongly believe there is 2 different levels of influence. There is the type of influence that can ether alter you as a whole in swaying your beliefs and manners of thought or just the lesser influence’s that simply just broadens your mind((Also your imagination like my case with my own Fandom with Yami Marik)). As you and Dakura mentioned yourself Debating is a means to share and test ones intellect with others, a means to help define ones own person and better ones self, and a means to help broaden ones understanding. I must say, would that not be influencing the people involved in such a activity? In truth there is always some manner of influence all around us where ever we go. To further this point to the defense of my own fandom. I have mentioned before my relationship with the character is based on how my life was similar to this character in many lights. It never had anything to do to how I could become more like this character. ((Now this repeating myself is getting old but I feel this point has yet to get across.)). How I lived my life and the choices I made then where already over and done with before I saw Yami Marik for the first time. I was never influenced as who I am to begin with nor at any time in the present or future at that. I guess what I am getting at is that my Fandom is it’s a type of fascination. Basically I means I can see myself as this character ((A reflection)) in this fantasy world of Yugioh and the game it portrays. I never see myself as actually “being” the Character in any form. There fore as far as this character influencing who I am, that would be not the case. It has been only something to spur my imagination((Furthing it even)) and self enjoyment. Therefore I will say that not all Fandom is negative at all as there is different forms of it as is with influence. It has only helped improve my imagination as I continue with my art, stories, and even RPG games I enjoy. However for those that do see themselves more as “being” there character. Well I have to agree fully to your statement as described in Bullet 3. Well I must say your post is rather enjoyable. I do thank you for being a part of this discussion as well as our forum. I never thought that this site could attract the attention of so many intellectual people so that Discussions like this ((Ever so thrilling)) can be held. I have many beliefs to which I like to throw in. However it is so much fun to have the chance to think so strongly on my own beliefs in comparison to so many others. A cycle to all minds may grow. PS: Please do explain why you like the character Noa as it intrigues me. A character I rarely find to be a persons favorite unlike the fleshier, more active story based, and more dramatic characters in the show. |
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Post by infernofireblast on Dec 5, 2005 19:56:22 GMT -5
I have been quiet as I've found little time to think of any way to further this intriguing debate, but no longer. MrExplosive has made several excellent points, as have all of you. However, I agree with MrExplosive in his point that One's weakness is Another's strength. Where Bakura and Marik both failed to stop the Pharoah, they managed to trample every other character on the show, Major and Minor, hundredsfold. From the uneditted showing of Yami Marik stabbing Joey Wheeler to death with the concealed Rod Dagger, to Yami Bakura slaying Mahado in the coldest of blood, both have shown how easy it is to be evil, yet how hard it is for each of them to conquer their numerous weaknesses among themselves. Yami Bakura is cold, calculating, bloodthirsty, yet still finds time to humor himself in taunting his foes to the brink of madness and rancor. Yami Marik is the same, yet his enjoyment comes not from taunting the foe, but attempting(and succeeding more often than not) to shatter the foe's will to fight and even live. Yami Bakura is superior to Marik in that his strategies may require large Life Point losses, but always end up with the Opponent losing much more before the end. Yami Marik is superior in that his Dueling Style has the tendency 99.9% off the time to drive the opponent to the brink of insanity long before the Duel is over, guaranteeing him more often than not a quick, painful, and enjoyable victory. However, I must still side with Bakura, for Raven is correct, had Bakura not listened to the weak half of Marik's soul, the favor would have slipped into Bakura's hands much quicker, and possibly remained throughout the Duel, until the Script Writers would have decided to give Marik the comeback of the century anyway to further the Storyline along. Not to mention, Bakura's Decks continue to, as I said numerous times before, change for the better, becoming so sadistic with each concurrent Duel he enters, that it makes the eyes of ones like myself light up with glee to see the Pharoah and others suffer so much before getting their obvious wins over the devious Tomb-Robber. I'll say no more, as I've rambled on long enough, this has been my ten cents, I hope you've all enjoyed.
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Post by Raven on Dec 6, 2005 5:52:45 GMT -5
This does not make any since at all for me. How is it a advantage to lose large sums of life points to incorporate strategies to force the opponent to lose more? You being a experienced player you should realize there are far more efficient strategies to widdle the opponents life points in unconventual means. Rather then run such a huge risk to lose so many life points in such recklessness. After all such strategies can have more then one element to them that can go wrong which can literally end up killing yourself. The main reason such Decks have a hard time competing in the realm of reality. Besides I am wondering if you missed a little something in one of my posts regarding Bullet 3.
Oh really now. I think you are jumping far ahead of yourself in this line of inquiry. ((Makes me wonder why you did not quot me after all. In the example of Bullet 4.)) Probably because it would seem that you in so many words have augmented my statement from its original context to your benefit.
I did not ever say anything about how Bakura may have taken any advantage what so ever if he did not listen to Marik. Such a claim would be a purely opinion to begin with in any regard. Additionally since when did the tide of the Duel ever move into Bakura’s favor as you have said yourself? That is a rather bold statement that I feel falls short. However if I am wrong please feel free to offer any incriminating evidence that can help support your claim.
I will point out some things threw out the Duel that can help denounces claims that Bakura could have taken the advantage or let alone to actually win the Duel. Upon study of these episodes Bakura already had many disagreements towards the comments Marik made in the Duel. Matter of fact they argued for half the time to Yami Mariks amusement. This on top of the fact that Bakura was the one Dueling and making nearly all of the decisions to begin with withers this inquiry some. Additionally would you deny that Bakura would not have used Exchange in the Duel? More then likely not. Ether way if he did not use it that would just mean that Marik would have the God Card remaining in his hand which could benefit him in the end anyways.
That is true, however never to forget the same is said for every other character in the show that has lasted along the story line. As there Decks taken there own evolutionary corse to become better. In any case it would be safe to assume that if Yami Marik where to make a appearance in the later episodes with the rest of the series characters. That his Deck too would have evolved.
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Post by infernofireblast on Dec 6, 2005 11:34:43 GMT -5
For point 1 you quuoted me on, Pegasus summed it up best in the Movie.. "You have to spend Life Points to take Life Points". Yet it is agreed the rest of my points made little or no sense, as I was tired beyond all comprehension yesterday. Forgive my rambling, hence why I ceased it before I could go further into a hole. Yet, I did overlook your 4th point, so I will concede that to you as well my friend. However, his overconfidence(Zorc's as well) was not his own, as we all know, it was the fault of Script Writers trying to make a few extra pennies by making Bakura easily beaten every time he and the Pharoah clash, despite having the overly-obvious advantage. Again I apologize for jumping the gun on the Bakura/Malik Duel, but you and I both know Bakura isn't stupid enough to overlook Malik potentially changing his Deck for the better without some weasely little idiot like good Marik poisoning his rational thought. And of course, it would've made for a better show on Bakura's part is the Script Writers again had written good Marik out of the Episode.. Now that I'm awake though, Marik's Deck was augmented several times after dealing with Mai, I agree, but how many times has one(like me, obviously..) drooled over seeing Cards like Death Dragon Zoma, Necro Jar, Necros Soldier, Ghost Duke, etc. coming into play to inflict greater pain on the Pharoah and others, even though watching Lava Golem put poor Joey in a cage and burn the ever-loving crap out of his Life Points was sheer brilliance on Marik's part (insert gleeful cackling here). But, what I wish I'd seen was Bakura's current Deck against Marik's own Deck used vs. the Pharoah. Alas though, we'll never know how a Duel like that would've ended. Well, that's enough out of me again.. *tosses my shovel away* Now it's back to work for me, adieu for now.
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Post by mrexplosive on Dec 10, 2005 21:00:51 GMT -5
You want to know why my favourite character is Noa? Well, this'll be interesting.
Noa is my favourite character for so many reasons. One, I always search for the individuality within people. Noa is different, he stands out, and that appeals to me greatly. As I've stated before, individuality is NECESSARY for life, and to find those in others is a special gift only certain people have. These people can often be associated with Jekyll/Hyde effects (Such as Noa, saves the "crew" from Gosoboro[sp?]).
Two, I find Noa to be the kind of person who is just misunderstood as an intellect. Some people have certain, shall I say, "higher levels of thinking", and can imagine things other people can't even dream of. These people become (eventually) insane, which is often seen as a sign of weakness, and therefore, misunderstood. This relates to Point One, as it shows individuality.
Three, (and this will sound VERY unprofessional [something I'm not very fond of]) HE'S A FREAKING GENIUS. The way he set up the Cyber World, and led them into traps, broke them apart, developed a whole new system to dueling, and had his own evil minions, shows how smart he can be. Everybody respects an intellect, don't they?
Fourth, he's all business. He knows what he wants, and he gets it. Such people have control of their life, and they demand respect, and they recieve it. Having control of your life lets you be happy, rich, famous, anything you want. Taking control of your life is the most important thing about living, knowing what you want and how to get it.
Fifth, he uses underrated cards. Shinato, King of a Higher Plane anyone? Spirit Cards? It fascinates me. The fact that he can take such cards with weak effects, and can use them so manipulatively, shows that he can create a sequence of events in his mind. People with this can make Gold out of crap, and it's very, very amazing.
Finally, all these points add up to one conclusion: I like Noa because he's the exact representation of a important businessman. He demands respect, he's knowledgeable, and he knows how to make a deal (though, I would hardly consider turning people into stone "a good deal"). He's my ideal person, and, like I said in my previous post, everybody has somebody they can relate to, whether good OR bad. Noa is mine, because I want to learn how to be such a figure as him (except for the whole, "dying-and-coming-alive-as-a-robot" thing).
Note that I'm not comparing Noa to Marik or Bakura. Also note that I didn't directly mention the vile quality of villians, for that is not what appeals to me.
Thank you.
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Post by Dakura Deoman on Dec 11, 2005 21:37:54 GMT -5
Well i was giving people a chance to respond first... and i guess 24 hours qualifies as "a chance". As I've stated before, individuality is NECESSARY for life, and to find those in others is a special gift only certain people have. Before i get to my main point... i just want to say i completely agree with you about individuality in a person. I absolutely enjoy talking to people who aren't afraid to be different from the norm... and who don't give a damm about what society thinks of them ((something I've actually found in quite a few members on this forum now that i think about it)). Anyways onto my actual point. Two, I find Noa to be the kind of person who is just misunderstood as an intellect. Some people have certain, shall I say, "higher levels of thinking", and can imagine things other people can't even dream of. These people become (eventually) insane, which is often seen as a sign of weakness, and therefore, misunderstood. This relates to Point One, as it shows individuality. I really don't mean to tear your thoughts and beliefs here to shreads... but it looks like that's what I'm about to do in the nicest and friendliest way possible ((for a change... considering i don't bother with the niceties when i don't like the person *suddenly wonders if 'niceties' is even a word, or just one i made up*)). Just because a person may have as you put it "a higher level of thinking" doesn't mean they will go insane. It's kinda like saying that a person who has "a higher level of fighting abilities that can fight in ways others can only dream of" will eventually turn out to be a violent serial killer... it's just not true. A person doesn't become a deadly assassin overnight... just like a person doesn't develop a high level of intelligence overnight. Sure some people may be naturally gifted in fighting... but put them against somebody who originally may not have been as skilled but practiced long and hard for many years and the person who has practiced for years will more then likely win. Sure some people may be gifted with an abnormally high IQ level... but that doesn't mean they are smarter then everyone else. However just like with a persons physical skills... certain things can be done to improve or damage a persons mental skills and abilities. As for the insanity part... Just because a person is smart doesn't mean they will become insane.... just like not all insane people are smart. The smarter insane people just tend to last longer, create more effective ways of killing people in large masses and end up being a bigger overall threat to society... that's all. Again compare it to a serial killer... people who know how to kill properly and not leave behind a scrap of evidence linking the murder to them will naturally last longer and pose a bigger threat then those who can't. |
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Post by Nightshade on Dec 11, 2005 23:52:04 GMT -5
Per Raven's request I will go ahead and join this cold war. Unlike the rest of the of the gernals here, doubt I will be partaking of a battle of wits. Also, I will try to keep my post to a reasonable length, instead of a making it into a novel.
My favorite character is Seto Kaiba, mainly because he is the only character that looks like an actual human being (except for the clothes). Though he is rather stuck on himself, he has enough money to do and say what he pleases without worrying about ruffling anyones feathers. I agree with his "Get the hell out of my way" attitude as well. All in all, Seto Kaiba is far from being perfect, but he does possess some qualities that I find imusing enough to spend half an hour sitting and watching ever so often.
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